Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

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Rolldown
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby Rolldown » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:02 pm

The truth is in between on this one. Fleet repair tech does indirectly affect debris creation in the sense that if a ship can be repaired it *doesn't* count toward debris. This is demonstrated easily by sending 1 LF at someone. If you get a repair option, there won't be a debris cloud. What the dev response may have meant is that ships that go into fleet repair aren't even counted as destroyed in the first place. So for destroyed ships it's always 30% debris.

Talizorah
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby Talizorah » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:21 pm

Rolldown wrote:The truth is in between on this one. Fleet repair tech does indirectly affect debris creation in the sense that if a ship can be repaired it *doesn't* count toward debris. This is demonstrated easily by sending 1 LF at someone. If you get a repair option, there won't be a debris cloud. What the dev response may have meant is that ships that go into fleet repair aren't even counted as destroyed in the first place. So for destroyed ships it's always 30% debris.


Yes, you are correct. The 30% debris is calculated after ships that would be repaired have been removed. Assuming both players have lvl3 repair, that would then be the same as saying 21% turns to debris.

nfettinger
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby nfettinger » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:22 pm

Debris is calculated in the following way:

1. The number of ships to be repaired are subtracted from those that will go into debris.
2. 40 % of the metal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.
3 20 % of the crystal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.

Remember, debris existent around a planet before a battle does not help you generate a satellite.

nfettinger
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby nfettinger » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:29 pm

Debris is calculated in the following way:

1. The number of ships to be repaired are subtracted from those that will go into debris.
2. 40 % of the metal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.
3 20 % of the crystal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.

Remember, debris existent around a planet before a battle does not help you generate a satellite.

Talizorah
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby Talizorah » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:53 pm

nfettinger wrote:Debris is calculated in the following way:

1. The number of ships to be repaired are subtracted from those that will go into debris.
2. 40 % of the metal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.
3 20 % of the crystal value of the remaining ships goes to debris.

Remember, debris existent around a planet before a battle does not help you generate a satellite.


Actually, debris is calculated as:

Debris = (Cost of total destroyed ships - Cost of repaired ships) x 30%.

Metal and crystal are both calculated the same, gas is not included in debris. Ships tend to cost an average of 2x's more metal than cystal, depending on fleet composition, and so debris often has more metal than crystal.

osapias
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby osapias » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:20 pm

What about the fact that a missile chaser can fire at 3 targets on once?
Wouldn't that mean the 2 missile chasers > 3 destroyers in a fight?

Talizorah
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby Talizorah » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:47 pm

In most ship vs ship situations, the MC will be better than the Destroyer. Vs each other, 1 MC will hold its own vs 2 Dest. So 2 MC will beat out 3 Dest. Base numbers are:

Destroyer - Atk: 2,000 Shields: 500 Armor: 11,000
MC - Atk: 1,900 Shields: 1,100 Armor: 19,000

Defensively the MC is roughly twice as durable than the Dest, is slightly faster, and costs less gas to send out. It also benefits from greater rapid fire targets and the fact that it gets up to 3 simultaneous shots in a round. If any one of those three shots trigger rapid fire, it gets up to 3 more simultaneous shots in the round and so on. However, it can not target the same ship with more than one of those three shots on a simultaneous attack. If the MC has only 2 available targets, it will target each one and fire 2 shots. It will not fire it's 3 shot. If there are more than 2 targets, then it will get all three shots.

Where the dest is a little more effective is in battles vs ground defenses as it has rapid fire vs light lasers. Other than that, 1v1, the MC durability will have it outlast a dest in most situations.

-Tali

osapias
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby osapias » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:46 pm

What if you Add the cost of research, you could build 1600 destroyers for the research cost of getting warp drive from level 11 to 12, if I am not mistaken.. Not the mention the time it takes to do the research.

Talizorah
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby Talizorah » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:20 pm

osapias wrote:What if you Add the cost of research, you could build 1600 destroyers for the research cost of getting warp drive from level 11 to 12, if I am not mistaken.. Not the mention the time it takes to do the research.


The Cost of HD 12 is:
Metal - 40,960,000
Crystal - 81,920,000
Gas - 24,576,000

Research times for HD 11 -> HD12 are:

Research Lab 10 - 1396:21:49
Research Lab 11 - 1280:00:00
Research Lab 12 - 1181:32:18
Research Lab 13 - 1097:08:34
Research Lab 14 - 1024:00:00
Research Lab 15 - 960:00:00
Research Lab 16 - 903:31:46
Research Lab 17 - 853:20:00
Research Lab 18 - 808:25:16
Research Lab 19 - 768:00:00
Research Lab 20 - 731:25:43
Research Lab 21 - 698:10:55

I would not suggest starting HD 12 until you have at least research lab 16 as that puts HD 12 (and several other of the end game techs) at just over a month for research time.

As for what ships* you could use these resources to build instead:

Small Cargo 20480
Large Cargo 6826
Spy Probe 81920
Recovery Vessel 4096
Colony Ship 2457
Light Fighter 13653
Heavy Fighter 6826
Cruiser 2048
Battleship 910
Bomber 819
Dreadnought 1365
Destroyer+ 682
Death Star 8**
Rocket Launcher 20480
Light Laser 27306
Heavy Laser 6826
Gauss Cannon 2048
Ion Cannon 13653
Plasma Turret 819

*Quartz requiring ships and the Large and Small shields are excluded due to extra requirements or game restraints.
** Would require HD12 to have already have been completed

The above numbers are an OR - if you spent all of HD 12 res, you could build up to those numbers with likely many resources left over. Such as:

682 Destroyers = 40,920,000 Metal 34,100,000 Crystal and 10,230,000 Gas
Remaining Resources = 40,000 Metal, 47,820,000 Crystal and 14,346,000 Gas
+You would need an additional 55,080,000 metal to build up to that 1600 Destroyers.

The biggest perk to researching HD12 is that it allows you to build Death Stars - the end game ship for GaW. While its slow speed makes it generally unrealistic for attack (however it is a great planet defense killer), it has incredible utility value.

DS have such a low stationed fleet gas consumption (1 unit gas per hour) that even a 1,000 player score alt could station a few. If you have sub-50k alts, they are great to defend those planets from attack until you have the chance to harvest their res, and they also work great to store excess res for later builds and research (now a bit obsolete due to the fleet resource capacity being increased from 100M to 1B). Also, because of their low gas cost, they are quite effective when combined with the Planetary Jumpgates for surprise planet defenses. Their resource carrying capacity is also the largest in the game, making them excellent for resource storage and transportation across galaxies. 100 DS = 1B resource capacity.

Short term, building those destroyers might be an attractive option, however, for me personally, completing HD12 is an accomplishment saying you are entering the end-game and are ready to make that push into massive res collecting and fleet building. I personally have never met anyone who regretted completing HD 12 sooner rather than later.

-Tali

osapias
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Re: Mulling Over the Numbers: A Noob Review

Postby osapias » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:17 pm

Even if you go for the death star right away, by the time you get there, you'll already have a sizable fleet of destroyers... Even if you only built one a day on each of your worlds, you will still have at least 800 or so due to the likely month and a half to 3 months it takes to go warp drive level 9 to level 12 alone.


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