Battle optimization

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S1940
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Battle optimization

Postby S1940 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:07 pm

Can you please explain this new battle optimization that was done to Virgo? So far it's terrible and many players are talking about leaving. The damage doesn't make sense, and all the Capitol ships appear to be a lot weaker. And why was this done without any news?

Jasonr
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby Jasonr » Wed Mar 19, 2014 8:53 pm

The ship type advantages appear to have been modified downward by about 30% or shields regenerate each round now. In the former case, I'd like the info by ship type in the shipyard to be updated to reflect the new figures if they have indeed changed. Alternatively, in the latter case, I'd like an explanation of the new mechanism. In the past a ship targeted a random opponent unit (ship or defense), if it targeted a ship or defense type which it had an advantage on ... Then it had the published probability to target another random unit, and so on and so forth until it targeted a ship or defense unit it did not have an advantage on OR it failed the probability to acquire a new target. Moreover, it appeared that damage was cumulative to shields and defense ... meaning that damage sustained one round carried to the next. It appears something fundamental has changed.

S1940
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby S1940 » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:43 pm

Thanks for the reply frank and the explanation.

sphinx.frank
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby sphinx.frank » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:49 pm

we modified the battle mechanism to reduce the potential risk of server stuck, we make the battle more efficient with this new mechanism. Since the huge data in battles caused the server stuck before, so we decide to do this. in old mechanism, in one round, the broken ship may be selected to be aimed again, we modify it in the new mechanism. Therefore, in new mechanism,, both sides will lose a little more.

Nightwolf
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby Nightwolf » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:37 am

You have yet to explain why the changes were implemented you just keep saying t was because the server was stuck. From my point of view this answer clearly seems like a bs reason and shows you don't care about your customers. The battle formula to me and other players have worked just fine for the last few months with no apparent server stuck like you claim. Also the battle system was a direct copy of the one used in simar games and they never had to implement such a radical change. This change that causes more loss to the dominate player makes fleet battles unprofitable. This just seems like a platent attempt to punish big players even more then your glory system or reduction in df size and the astronomical fuel costs in an attempt to balance players. I can see how you guys see this as a way to stabilize players and stop people from quitting but the changes have turned loyal players against you. I know myself among a lot of other top players will be quitting because you just don't listen to your customers.

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DoctorWho
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby DoctorWho » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:27 pm

This is an economy based game, profits drive that economy. By making larger targets unprofitable to each other you place emphasis on the smaller ones. This change if it stays around will be the death of all the smaller players as farming them will prove much easier to pull a profit from. As simply as I can put it.

But in our feelings as big fleeters we play a war game to fly our ships around attacking other ships for profit, and you have almost completely removed this as a profitable activity. Please change it back, and figure out what in the formula was causing your servers issues, or simply upgrade your servers. Server space is cheap these days, if you don't you will see most of the larger paying players leave I am afraid and it will be your loss.

Jasonr
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby Jasonr » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:16 pm

So the only change was the removal of potential re targeting of destroyed ships? That seems incomplete on the basis of the battle reports I'm seeing. If that was the only change then I would expect larger fleets to have an advantage ... Not for smaller fleets to inflict more damage. Can you clarify your explanation with an example using the new and old mechanics? Is it possible the correction has had an unintended consequence (like shortening the target array therefore limiting the number of times an individual ship is allowed to fire in a single round)? Please help me understand. Ultimately I'm fine with any change as long as I know what the governing rules and limitations are for the mechanics.

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DoctorWho
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby DoctorWho » Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:59 pm

I'm tired of explaining things at the moment but simply put, that isn't even close to all that was done to the battle system. If it was done at all.

Ships below 30% armor have a chance of exploding. I think possibly they are saying that those ships are considered to be 100% destroyed now with no chance of continuing combat, that would be my guess as in the combat system the only way I can think of to target an already dead unit is during rapid fire selection if it has already been destroyed in the same round but I'm not even sure under normal circumstances that is possible under the Ogame system which they were using almost to a T up till most recent update hence the Ogame simulators working to calculate battle outcomes up until now. And I'm explaining stuff again... it's a habit I will be rid of soon if this cluster fox doesn't get fixed.

Talizorah
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby Talizorah » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:53 am

The posts on this thread make more sense. Yes, overall ship loss is greater than before. It was a massive issue previously that ships were getting stuck dealing their damage to destroyed ships. This was particularly evident in the case of Silent Monks vs wartsila. The data from that fight show massive damage being dealt to nothing, and having more ships meant nothing. In this optimized system, we should be seeing rapidfire working as intended. There are, however, quite a few issues with this new system. Units like light fighters and light lasers are tearing stronger ships, specifically dreads, apart. The most common example seems to be LF and CR, but dreads are really taking a beating. I am wondering if a further adjustment to targeting was made in ships now prioritize different ship types, and it's not nearly as random as before?

I will say that I have run over 75 controlled battles since this optimization, and the results are becoming predictable. Losses are higher than what we expect to see, because it is different from what we are used to. However, the system is working consistently on a battle-to-battle basis.

I am concerned that there are some parts of this game that have not been properly updated, such as rapidfire stats on all ships. This coupled with the optimized battle system is leaving players scratching their heads. I have heard some day they think the damage is being grouped now and units are removed at the end of each round accordingly, rather than distributed through random targeting. It would be beneficial for all to release a technical explaination of the "new" battle system for us players to gain a better understanding, and help ease our blood pressure every time we get a battle report.

As a side note, it would be helpful to more vigilantly post patch notes and detail what changes or bugs were fixed. Players like seeing numbers, so please, show us numbers.

Thanks!
-Tali

sphinx.frank
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Re: Battle optimization

Postby sphinx.frank » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:59 am

hey guys, there are actually two facts are affecting the current battle result in new battle mechanism:

1. It was a bug that one ship can be aimed as a target more than one time in a single round even it's destroyed. In new battle mechanism, destroyed ships will no longer be aimed again in a single round.

2. In previous battle mechanism, once an attacking damage is less than 1% of defensive ship's shield, it's going to be ignored. The bug was: say you have 10k of light fighters, if the second one select Death Star as its target, as the damage a LF can do is less than 1% of DS's shield, that attack was ignored, and it would involve the rest 9998 LF's attacking ability: they all cease fire after the second one fail to make an effective attack. I think this explains Talizorah's doubt on battle between Monks and wartsila.


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