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Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:47 am
by Grey Zathras
Dear game Guru,

I have got just a few small questions:

1) Talizorah (in this post - viewtopic.php?f=8&t=719#p1627 ) told about another case for exploding ships - during Rapid Fire (Armor criteria 40%), but what is the exact formula for this case?

2) In the same topic there is information about "Optimized Battle System" patch - has it been already implemented or not? The exact quote is below:
There currently is a bug with the rapidfire/battle system, where the destroyed ships can still be targeted. When they are targeted, the attack does less than 10% damage and deals no damage. When a ship deals no damage, under the current system, that ship and all other ships of that same type that have yet to fire, end their attack phase for that round. This potentially causes thousands of ships not to attack per round. This bug was fixed in the "Optimized Battle System" patch, but was removed because of overwhelming player complaint for ship loss. The increased ship loss was a result of having the system work as intended and having every ship truly make an attack. The bug was added back into the game because of this.

In case the patch is in use - the question is - can destroyed ships still be targeted?

3) Heliod - in the Coprehensive Guide (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1416) mentioned about Rapid Fire formula (r-1)/r
Finally, if the shooting unit has rapid fire (with value r) against the target unit, it has a chance of (r-1)/r of choosing another target at random, and repeating the above steps for that new target.

But r (for shooting unit) is always the value 0< r <1, so the result of your formula will be less 0 always.
Please, clarify. Is it possible that the Rapid Fire chance is the "r" itself, but not the (r-1)/r ?

4) I met some rumors that damage could be ignored not only in case of 1% of the shield but in case the damage less than 1% of the Hull Plate too.
Is it true?

Thank you!

PS
Sorry for the crossposting, but I have got no answer at the Strategies Sharing forum...

Re: Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:33 pm
by Talizorah
Hello, I apologize that I haven't responded sooner.

In regards to question 1:

A ship has a chance to explode when it reaches 40% damage taken (ship health at 60/100 or 60% armor remaining). Every % or damage dealt is a +1% chance for exploding once the damage taken is equal to or exceeds 40% total damage to armor (or 60% total armor remaining or less).

If a ship were at 40% damage taken (60/100 total armor) it has a 40% chance to explode. If that ship takes 1% more damage so that total damage is 41% (59/100 total armor) it will have a 41% chance to explode.

2) the patch was removed and the old "bug" of dead ship targeting was put back in. What was removed was the other side of that bug which cancelled all remaining ship attacks of the same type if the ship before it targeted a dead ship. The system saw 0 damage being dealt so it assumed there were no more viable targets and would move to the next round. This means, that before, if your light fighter targeted a dead ship, all remaining light fighters that have not yet gotten an attack in the round would consider the round to be over, and targeting would begin for the next ship type.

3) I cannot say for certain anything on Heliod's formula as I have not gotten feedback on what the rapid fire forumla is. What I do know is that a ship cannot target the same ship more than one time within the same round. So if there is only one ship on defense, the attacking ship will only have one attack in that round, regardless it has rapid fire against that ship.

4) there is zero truth to this rumor. I have tested it in-game with a small cargo attacking a dreadnought. The SC attack was 0.059% to the dreads armor, but it still dealt it's damage.

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Hopefully this helps clear up some of your questions!

-Tali

Re: Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:59 am
by Grey Zathras
Dear Tali,

Thank you for your response.

The question #1 was actually about this quote:
In addition, when a target which the firing ship has rapidfire against falls below 40% armor, the shot has a chance to instantly destroy that ship.


So are there any addtional implifications to the explosion chance you described during the rapid fire or there is no difference - what was the shot - from rapid fire or a standard one?

And I've got a new question about the Dome Shields:
Am I right that Dome shields are actually the same ships just with a specific stats?
And similar to the ships they get shield bonuses from the Tech, planet skin, Alliance , etc....
The only exception is that these "special ships" expand their shield protection to all the items - cargo, defence buildngs and other ships.
So the question is - do the provide this additional shield protection with all the bonuses or just the original value?
For example there are a Cruiser, Big Dome Shield and a Small Dome Shield. And Shield Tech 10 (+100% tho the shield).
A cruiser has its own shield and get one one from the Big Dome Shield and one from the Small Dome Shield.
What is it's final shield?
(50 +100%) + 2000+10000=12100
or (50 +100%) + (2000+100%) +(10000+100%) =24100?

Another question - what about the Dome Shields as a buildings? Do they protect each other? If they do, does the Big Dome Shield as an object - get protection from both this *global shields* or just from Small One? Has it got any *internal shield* with bonuses as any defence structure or a ship?
How to calculate the final protection for Big Dome Shield like in example above?

Thank you!

Zathras

Re: Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:21 pm
by Talizorah
Grey Zathras wrote:And I've got a new question about the Dome Shields:
Am I right that Dome shields are actually the same ships just with a specific stats?
And similar to the ships they get shield bonuses from the Tech, planet skin, Alliance , etc....


This part, from my understanding of the Large and Small Shields is that they are indeed like ships and other defenses. They receive the same stat boosts like all other ships and defenses.

I have not seen any evidence in battle reports to suggest that they protect other structures. Based on the explanation from the descriptions, I can understand how this can be misleading. They simply count as another targetable unit, that just happens to have a very high amount of shields. As such, both the Large and Small will typically render any of the Civil-class ships ineffective, and the large shield (depending on attacker techs vs defender techs) prevent up to Heavy-Fighters from dealing damage to the shields.

The biggest question I have not been able to determine an answer to is if there is any sort of priority targeting during a combat round. It does not appear that the Large and Small shields protect the other ships or defenses in any way except as adding additional targets that absorb a lot of damage. In fact, these Shields are often the last defenses destroyed in combat, based on BR's I have seen.

The Large and Small Shields should both have their armor and shields calculated normally like a heavy fighter, or a gauss cannon.

As far as ships exploding, I was given the impression that it is not dependent on the attacking ship having rapidfire against the targeted ship, however, I cannot give an answer as to one way or the other with any certainty. It would be possible to test this with a series of small battles of ships with rapidfire and ships without. If you run the tests, send me screenshots of the BR's with each players techs and the round-by-round breakdown (like the above BR I posted) and I'd be more than happy to crunch the numbers to see. You can send them to my LINE account (ID info can be found in my profile).

Speaking of that above BR, I was taking a closer look at the numbers and noticed that I was wrong about rapidfire targeting. It appears the same ship can be targeted multiple times in the same round, as well as also shows the dead ship targeting. The dreadnought's first shot killed the Small Cargo, and it was granted a second shot in which it targeted the dead small cargo.

Small Cargo = Attack: 13 Shields: 22 Armor: 1148
Dreadnought = Attack 2240 Shields: 1280 Armor: 23100

The dread had 2 attacks @ 2240 resulting in the 4480 damage dealt, 22 of which was absorbed by the shields. The combined defense of the SC was 1148+22 = 1170, which is well below the single shot damage of 2240 by the dread.

What is interesting is that the SC dealt 12/13 damage to the Dreads shields and I am not positive, but it appears that last point of damage was dealt to the Dreads armor.

-Tali

Re: Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:46 am
by Grey Zathras
Dear Tali,

I did some some tests too to estimate the selfdesctruction criteria: I took 1 Dread against 12 Launchers (RL).
I did some number of tests (10-12) with 11 RL amount, but the Dread had survived for all of them.

So I will discuss the one when 12 RL killed the Dread:
snap00.PNG
overall stats
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As you can see from the stats, the result Dread Plate Armor is 7000*2.75=19250 and it's shield is 1040.
one RL does 216 damage.
snap01.PNG
1st round
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The Dread did 6 shots in 6 rounds killing one RL each round.
During this 6 rounds the Dread got 2592+2376+2160+1944+1728+1522=12312 damage, but absorbing 6*1040=6240 damage with shield.
So the result damage it got is 12312-6240=6072
The rest of his Armor Plate is 19250-6072=13178 (69%) at the end of 6th round.
snap06.PNG
6th round
snap06.PNG (84.44 KiB) Viewed 5899 times

But the most important thing that it lost in 6th round!

Please comment the battle above - am I right that the Dreadnought blowed up having more than 60% armor ?

Thank you!

Re: Battle Mechanics questions

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:44 am
by Talizorah
Your numbers look good, you are correct, it exploded after taking only 31% damage. Id be willing to bet then that explosion can happen at 30% or greater damage. The 40% I believe was based off an assumption that it was the same as maybe GE or OGame.

So that test proved 2 things: explosion can happen at least after 30% damage, and a unit does not need to have RF against its target to trigger an explosion.

Very good test!
-Tali

Edit: I'd say it's pretty reasonable to say without a doubt the trigger is at 30%. The dread did not reach that until the 6th round, and the rockets had 7 chances at 30-31% to trigger the explosion. It's safe to say the threshold for explosion is 30%.